Haas 5c Indexer Manual
Hello all, I have a 2006 TM-1 that I am installing a Haas indexer on. I have the Haas indexer control box, and initial thoughts were to hook up the 4-pin DIN cable (also Haas) to the spare M21 relay so the control can send the signal to the remote box and trigger the indexer to increment one line in its program. Down the road I hope to go full 4-axis, but that is a question for another thread. For now I am working with what I have on hand.
So in the indexer manual connecting to the spare m-code relay is straight forward. (Also it is explained well in the TM-1 manual.) In the indexer manual it also mentions the indexer control box can send a signal back to the mill that the index is done, and I would like to use that. This would save having to insert a dwell in the program, proportioned to the length of the index, before the tool moved back in to resume the cut. So I located the unused socket on the TM-1 main board for 'M FIN'. Rather than the expected two terminals, I have four.
Two have 12v (presumably the signal voltage) and two nothing. The question, is the M-FIN duplicated and able to receive a return signal from two independent devices? I suppose I could write a simple program to test this and complete the circuit between each pair of terminals, but I am always leery about back feeding voltages into circuit boards. Even if it is only 12v. Another curiosity is the manual for the indexer it states the signal voltage is 24v. Readily available (low) voltages on my TM-1 are 5v and 12v.
However I assume that if M-FIN provides 12v, it expects 12v back. So I suspect the manual is really stating is 24v is the maximum signal voltage that the indexer control box relay will handle. So, has anyone else already tapped into their M-FIN? Regards, Doug Ref: 2006 TM-1, 2002 TRT indexer. I have not implemented I/O on a Haas, But I would think the two optional FIN signals are or-ed in the controller, if there are two of them.
But normally the logic that implements an M code is written to either expect a FIN signal or to output without waiting for FIN, my question is, are you sure the M21 waits for a FIN signal? For what is required on the FIN input, you need to know the nature of the input card? Is it sink or source contact closure? I am just going by experience in Mitsubishi and Fanuc, I assume Haas uses the same principle.
But there I could be wrong!! Al, The M-FIN signal is optional, so no the M21 does not wait for it.
Or so I am lead to believe, since the TM-1 manual makes no mention of the M-FIN in conjunction with M21 (except in the context of assigning it to an optional – not installed – extended range of M-code relays.) Which does pose a new question, is there a Haas parameter to turn on/off a forced wait for return signal (activate M-FIN)? I will have to look in the parameter list for that. If it is default on, that is fine as I do want to use the M-FIN signal rather than estimating an appropriate dwell in the program.
The Haas spare M-function relays can be wired either normally open or normally closed. The indexer requires a normally open relay, and closing of the relay contact (for 0.1 second) triggers the indexer. Sorry, I do not know what you mean by 'or-ed'. The use of M21 and resetting of the relay via the M-FIN signal is clear enough.
5c Rotary Indexer
However I still do not know why the M-FIN terminal has four conductors, two 12v and two null, except my original postulation that it is to allow for two independent M-FIN signals. I have been waiting on a bulkhead connector to arrive so as to make a neat job of the M-FIN cable to the index control box.
That should arrive in a day or so. If no responses by then, I was going to try the experiment I previously mentioned. Which is take the 12v M-FIN signal current and short it to the two null terminals and see if that clears the relay(s) as I suspect.
I was sent a copy of the VF series manual, and in there it explained the 12v signal from MFIN is shorted to ground. This is not explainined in the TM-1 manual. While I figured the signal went out to the remote relay to complete the connection, it did not occur to me that it would be shorted out to ground. But indeed that is how it works. What still remained unsolved where the four terminals (P100 on a 2006 TM-1) A little experimentation showed that bridging the center two terminals had the desired effect of cancelling the M21 relay. What the other two terminals are for remains a mystery, but I have a working MFIN signal now communicating with my indexer.
Thanks to all who offered help and suggestions.
I have a manual for an older Haas 5C Rotary Indexer (stepper controller) but need one for the newer 5C Servo Controller. Link shows excerpt from the manual I have and stitched photo of the controller I need the manual for. Notice the difference of RS232 up/down as well as the 14 pin connector on the controller. Anyone can share, sale or have a source for the manual please let me know. The older manual is ok for programming since it is the same for both units. However I need the proper manual for this model to interface with other machinery. Have contacted Haas, no response yet.
Thank you, Tom Cliff, 5:58 น. On 2008-11-23, wrote: I have a manual for an older Haas 5C Rotary Indexer (stepper controller) but need one for the newer 5C Servo Controller. Link shows excerpt from the manual I have and stitched photo of the controller I need the manual for.
Notice the difference of RS232 up/down as well as the 14 pin connector on the controller. So - the first question is whether you actually need the controller to interface to a computer? Another one is whether the RS-232 interaces may simply be mounted elsewhere on the older one - shown elsewhere in the manual. As for the 14 pin connector vs the 7 shown in the drawing - are you sure that they did not simply leave out some of the pins to simplify the drawing? The spacing of the ones which are shown looks as though they are part of the 14-pin pattern, rather than the standard 7-pin pattern, where the pins (other than the center one) are equally spaced around the connector. Now - the top RS-232 connector is probably set up as a DCE (Data Communications Equipment) configuration (hence the female connector), and the bottom one as DTE (Data Terminal Equipment), so it would be likely that a terminal would plug into the top one, and the bottom one would plug into a modem - or a computer.
If you have an RS-232 breakout box, you can tell for sure which way it is configured by which of pin 2 or pin 3 has voltage output on it. (Expect no more than about 15V (or 12V for a more recent machine) from the pins. The pin 2 and pin 3 are measured relative to pin 7, BTW, that is the logic ground.
Haas Indexer Parts
But I'll bet that it will work if you ignore the RS-232 connectors - unless as I said, you need the communication with a computer. It may be old enough so it is expecting to have a punched tape reader plugged into it, and every time you hit the button for the next index, it reads the angle from the punched tape. (A computer can take over for this - and may be cheaper to use these days. Anyone can share, sale or have a source for the manual please let me know. I don't have one, so I can't do that. Just working from general knowledge of how computer things work.
The older manual is ok for programming since it is the same for both units. However I need the proper manual for this model to interface with other machinery. So you do plan to hook it to a computer. Have contacted Haas, no response yet. Good Luck, DoN. Email: Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C.
- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero - brew.@aol.com, 23:56 น. On 24 Nov 2008 05:27:21 GMT, 'DoN.
Nichols' wrote: So - the first question is whether you actually need the controller to interface to a computer? Need to interface with different machine controllers which are proprietary. Meaning I need to check & insure the pin outs on 14 Pin Connector, 4 pin DIN as well as the communication/programming protocol which I believe are also proprietary. Another one is whether the RS-232 interaces may simply be mounted elsewhere on the older one - shown elsewhere in the manual. No, the manual I have is for Stepper (Motor) Controller, No RS232 and these controllers have 7 pin connector as shown.
I need the manual for SERVO (Motor) Controller I have which is 14 Pin connector as well as RS232 up/down as shown in the photo. As for the 14 pin connector vs the 7 shown in the drawing - are you sure that they did not simply leave out some of the pins to simplify the drawing? Yes I am sure. The spacing of the ones which are shown looks as though they are part of the 14-pin pattern, rather than the standard 7-pin pattern, where the pins (other than the center one) are equally spaced around the connector. I have both styles, stepper and servo controllers the number of pins on the cable to the indexer are not the same nor are they interchangeable for the units I have. The older manual is ok for programming since it is the same for both units.
5c Collet Indexer Manual
However I need the proper manual for this model to interface with other machinery. So you do plan to hook it to a computer. I plan to hook up to machinery. I have a manual for new Haas Servo Controller and may assume the RS232 and 4 Pin DIN pin outs as well as communication/Programming protocol have not changed. However I rather pay for the correct manual and spend a couple of hours installing rather than save $60-$100 on a manual and waste 3+ days and a few thousand dollars in lost production messing with it. Tom Gunner Asch, 0:38 น. On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 23:56:17 -0800, wrote: I plan to hook up to machinery.
I have a manual for new Haas Servo Controller and may assume the RS232 and 4 Pin DIN pin outs as well as communication/Programming protocol have not changed. However I rather pay for the correct manual and spend a couple of hours installing rather than save $60-$100 on a manual and waste 3+ days and a few thousand dollars in lost production messing with it. Tom Call Sharon at Eagle CNC. If she doesnt know how to do it.she knows someone who does. 626-484-9223 Tell her Gunner says Hi! Cliff, 6:48 น.